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Author Topic: ESM vs COM  (Read 48287 times)

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Offline Dominik

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ESM vs COM
« on: February 18, 2011, 05:32:28 AM »
Hello,

first I would like to say I really like the Enterprise Switch Manager (ESM). I think it is a very good set of Tools,
that helps me with a lot of task in my daily work.
Now a Im facing the situation that the ESM will not be upgraded anymore.
So there are a lot of new SW releases that I can not manage with the ESM :(

The Now AVAYA product that replace the ESM is the Configuration and Orchestration Manager  (COM)

I tried an early version of the Configuration and Orchestration Manager in my LAB.
On my test VM COM runs very slow. Hopefully the newest version runs faster.

If anybody is using the COM already I would be very interessested in your expierence and thoughts about it.

THX
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Offline Michael McNamara

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Re: ESM vs COM
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2011, 11:11:47 AM »
I had a lengthy discussion with some Avaya folks this past Monday regarding JDM/EDM and ESM/COM... I haven't tested it myself yet but I've been promised a copy so I can see for myself and get a first hand experience. I can't really respond until I get COM installed and running.

Anyone else have COM installed?
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Offline Randy

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Re: ESM vs COM
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2011, 02:51:43 PM »
Yes I have COM installed and am currently configuring it and discovering our network, if you liked ESM then you'll be happy with COM as well, basically what Avaya did was take ESM, CLI Manager, NRM, UCM, VPFM and the kitchen sink, and intergrated it into one front end where everything works together while sharing a common database of device credentials.

I'm still learning it and have a LONG way to go but really like it so far.

Offline Dominik

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Re: ESM vs COM
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2011, 06:36:49 AM »
@Michael

You can get a 30 day trial license on the Avaya homepage
http://www.avaya.com/usa/free-software-trial/unified-communications-management

You need a server with RedHat linux or MS Windows Server 2003 or 2008.
COM is not a tool like the ESM that you can install on your Laptop  :(
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Offline Michael McNamara

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Re: ESM vs COM
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2011, 09:35:18 AM »
@Dominik Thanks!
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Offline Paul L

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Re: ESM vs COM
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2011, 01:23:53 PM »
I will preface this rant with a foreword that I am a supporter of just about everything Nortel ever made. In case someone from Avaya is reading :)

but.....
Nortel's NMS solutions has always been a sore spot for me.  Going all the way to back to 2003's Optivity 10.X to UCM.   It always seemed to me that the product was never mature enough to be released.  Littered with Bugs, Deficiencies, and broken promises on features and functionality. 

After 7 years of buying Optivity/ENMS, trying to use it, participating on Beta trails and making tickets,  we gave up and started using CA Unicenter.  And for some specific tasks such as inventory management we just coded some custom apps using C# and Perl.

I understand that Avaya will always have to offer some kind of home brew NMS solution.  But I for one am extremely disappointed in the direction they have gone with ESM, CLImanager, and JDM.  IMHO I can see allot of slow adopters out there holding on to their switch releases for as long as possible so they can still use ESM, CLIman and JDM.







 
« Last Edit: February 22, 2011, 01:28:44 PM by paulypaul »
ACSS- Avaya Enterprise Routing Switch  #8

Offline Flintstone

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Re: ESM vs COM
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2011, 03:19:47 PM »

@paulypaul

I would have to agree with you  :(

We trialed ESM and found it very 'clunky' and not user friendly at all.  We finally ended up down the Solarwinds route which allowed us to link to the switches EDM in a flash.  Solarwinds also backs up the running config weekly and the startup config on a monthly basis.  Inventory is done nightly.

It is also a shame that EDM has superseded JDM  :(

CheerZ

Offline Paul L

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Re: ESM vs COM
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2011, 03:38:58 PM »
when I was working closely with the Optivity/ENMS developers at Nortel during their beta programs I often told them "jokingly"............

"go buy a copy of CiscoWorks LMS, install it, and mimic its usability and functionality as closely as possible without getting sued" 


« Last Edit: February 22, 2011, 03:41:11 PM by paulypaul »
ACSS- Avaya Enterprise Routing Switch  #8

Offline Michael McNamara

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Re: ESM vs COM
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2011, 07:10:25 PM »
Hmmm... sometimes it's just not possible to teach a blind man to see again.

I will say this though, long live Perl and long live Net-SNMP!!!
« Last Edit: March 03, 2011, 10:14:56 AM by Michael McNamara »
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Offline qazzie

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Re: ESM vs COM
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2011, 04:20:41 AM »
Hmmm... sometimes it's just not possible to teach a blind mind to see again.

I will say this though, long live Perl and long live Net-SNMP!!!

can't agree more!

Offline Dominik

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Re: ESM vs COM
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2011, 05:28:10 AM »
@Paul
I completly disagree with you.
ESM works as a mass configuration and inventory tool very good.
I think if you come to an unkown AVAYA network and have only crappy documentions, ESM brings you very fast good results with that you can start to work.
It is a small tool that you can carry around installed on your Laptop.
Cisco Works / LMS is one of the badest tools a I have to work with. There are so many bad thinks about Cisco works that a donīt know where to start.
One of the worst thinks is the very rudimental support for all Nexus products.

@Micheal
Yes scripting is for a lot of task the best choice.
Some task like VLAN configurations I prefer to make with the VLAN manager of ESM. Espacially if you have to deploy a big ammont of VLAn and change ports vlan configurations.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2011, 06:17:55 AM by Dominik »
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Offline Paul L

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Re: ESM vs COM
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2011, 09:08:14 AM »
@Dominik.

Kindly read my post again,  Perhaps you misunderstood me. I never had a beef with ESM. That was one of the tools I liked and I was disappointed in the direction that Avaya was taking that tool. To the grave with CLIManager, and JDM.  :)

ESM pulled me out of the fire many times. 

my big beef was with parent NMS suites.  Optivity, ENMS, and UCM. 


But we will have to agree to disagree on CiscoWorks LMS.  I really enjoy working with that product, but to it's defense I stopped using it at version 2.6 and at that time we were only managing a small fleet of 400+ 2950's and 12+ 6500's.


« Last Edit: February 23, 2011, 09:16:21 AM by paulypaul »
ACSS- Avaya Enterprise Routing Switch  #8

Offline Dominik

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Re: ESM vs COM
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2011, 09:42:43 AM »
I hope that COM will be capable of all features that are implemented in ESM.

I heard that COM 3.0 will be lunched soon. (whatever soon means, last year they said it will come 2010)
In my understanding the Network Resource Manager NRM functionality and COM will be bundelt in COM 3.0. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Here is a AVAYA presantation for COM:
http://www.avaya.com/usa/demos/Unified-Communications-Management/

klick to UCM troubleshooting workflow >>> Call for Joe and all your Network problems will disappear  :P


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Offline Dominik

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Re: ESM vs COM
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2011, 09:58:17 AM »
I got some updates from AVAYA.
The features AVAYA has planed and published in some presantations for COM 3.0 are all implemented in COM 2.2.

Key features of COM 2.2

· More affordable Node based licensing

COM 50, 250 & 1200 device node licenses
Simplified device selection via topology map GUI
· Integrated Bulk Configuration Management (BCM)

Delivers completely integrated bulk configuration file management module
Pre-packaged - no install necessary
License enabled integrated functionality
Common Inventory
COM device inventory integrated
Schedule based bulk config backup & restore
Bulk patch & update management
 Excellent for pushing filter, QoS & port changes across whole network
·         Enhanced visualization & customization

Customized Topology Map Preservation
Save customized topology map
Keeps the customization after restore on saved topology file
Preserves Topology map customization after re-discovery
No re-customization of maps needed after re-discovery of existing devices
Save time to re-customize & improves CSAT
Export Inventory & Single device discovery
Export device inventory  to a CSV file
Ability to manually add a device
Quickly add a device for inventory & EDM launch purposes
High-light unreachable devices
Topology Map enhancement to color code un-reachable devices
·         Key Device Support

WLAN 81xx
Complete WLAN 81xx WC discovery & topology
AP inventory view
WLAN 81xx  WC configuration support for all wired configuration – VLAN, MLT, Routing
VSP 9000
Complete VSP 9000 device support
Discovery, Inventory &Topology support
Configuration file management
·         Improved usability – lower TCO & increased CSAT 

Faster COM Manager operation
Persist protocol discovery in database  for quicker subsequent load
Store COM protocol discovery COM server DB
Faster load operation for multi-user & repeat operations
VLAN, MLT, Routing managers
Hassle-free Upgrade & UCM platform support
COM 2.2 install manager un-install & re-install automatically
VPFM co-existency support
o    Single server installation for small size deployments (VPFM & COM managing up to 200 devices)
o    COM 2.2 support distributed UCM product install with VPFM (recommended for deployment managing over 200 devices)



The funcunality of the NRM is now integrated and called BCM (Bulk and Configuration Management) .
The name is a littlebit unlucky, in fact of the Buisness Communications Manager was also called BCM.

I am looking forward to a Lab test of COM 2.2.

I keep you updated
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Offline Michael McNamara

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Re: ESM vs COM
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2011, 10:16:53 AM »
Thanks for sharing that information... quite a list... we'll need to see if they can actually deliver.

Definitely let us know how your test of COM 2.2 goes... very interested!

Cheers!
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