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Author Topic: Edge Switches - Avaya or Extreme  (Read 1796 times)

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Offline ableseaman

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Edge Switches - Avaya or Extreme
« on: February 13, 2018, 11:07:30 AM »
Good Afternoon

A high level query I appreciate.....

We have always been a Nortel/Avaya house for both voice and data. Investment has been made recently in a data centre core/server LAN using Avaya VSP 8200, VSP7200 and VSP4800 in providing a 'fabric enabled' solution. We currently use ERS5500 switches within our multiple edge closets with SMLT 1Gb uplinks to our core switches. Budget is available to commence a refresh process covering these edge switches. Our intentions where to utilise the ERS 4900 switches with 10Gb uplinks - inhouse skills mean that the implementation can be covered in-house. On the voice estate we use AACC6/CS1000e and around 1000 1120E IP sets, so a bedded in configuration is in place that woudl be replicated with the ERS4900. However with the Extreme purchase we have been informed that their X450/460 range would be a more than able alternative. The likelyhood being that the X range will see the longer term R&D with ERS probably seeing an EoL at some point going forward. This possibly means external cost for switch builds and training needs for internal staff.

Don't want to rush into anything but budget is linked to end of financial year constraints....

Just wondered if any others are at a similar point and what there thoughts are going forward.

Cheers


Offline Sja

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Re: Edge Switches - Avaya or Extreme
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2018, 01:54:10 PM »
Hi

Every thing will be EoL in some point ....I would not buy X460/450 just because of that...
The - is
Multivendor network is more complex
X460 could not be use as SPB node
+
I like the color?

By the way
EoL link to X460

http://learn.extremenetworks.com/rs/641-VMV-602/images/EoS-Announcement_X460.pdf

Offline pat2012

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Re: Edge Switches - Avaya or Extreme
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2018, 10:04:51 AM »
I think you're safe continuing with the portfolio you know... and love.   ;D

Offline MatzeKS

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Re: Edge Switches - Avaya or Extreme
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2018, 06:42:15 AM »
I think you're safe continuing with the portfolio you know... and love.   ;D

agreed :)
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ACE-Fx #00050

Offline Paul L

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Re: Edge Switches - Avaya or Extreme
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2018, 07:47:22 PM »
Hi

Every thing will be EoL in some point ....I would not buy X460/450 just because of that...
The - is
Multivendor network is more complex
X460 could not be use as SPB node
+
I like the color?

By the way
EoL link to X460

http://learn.extremenetworks.com/rs/641-VMV-602/images/EoS-Announcement_X460.pdf


I think there is some mis-information in this post that I will clarify.

One shouldn't confuse the x460 with the x460-G2.  When someone from extreme or an extreme partner mentions the x450 or x460 in 2018 it is strongly implied that they are referring to the G2 series.   The G2 series or any switch that support v22 and up are relatively new and no where near behind EoSale or Eolife

As for Fabric Connect in EXOS switches.   
all EXOS switches that support 22.4 and up support Fabric Attach.  And this plays nicely into Avaya's best practices that were modified about 3 years.    When the ERSs came out with Fabric Connect it was best practice to use FC between your VSP core and ERS edge.  For reasons I won't get into here, using FC on ERS came with too many draw backs.  Therefore, using FA at the edge and FC in the Agg, Core and DC became the best practice.    As the x440G2, x450G2 and x460G2 are the go to market edge stackables for Extreme, all they really need is FA in order to introperate with a VSP core.

Extreme Edge and VSP core is technically not a multi-vendor network.  Sure, you need to learn a new CLI.  But the integration with automation and management has taken that complexity away. 
ACSS- Avaya Enterprise Routing Switch  #8

Offline Paul L

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Re: Edge Switches - Avaya or Extreme
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2018, 08:10:54 PM »
full disclosure. I worked at Avaya and now at Extreme.  So I can give you some insight.   

 First off, I FREAKING love the ERS switches.  I have been working on ES and ERS switches for almost 18 years. Performance, stability, usability is off the charts.  And using them in Fabric Attach mode connected to a Fabric Connect Core is the sweeting shit ever.

Second. if anyone tells you ERS switches are going EoSale, EoLife EoSupport they are lying or being intellectually dishonest. The ERS3600, 4900, and 5900s will continue to be for sale as per the Avaya Sale cycle.  So we can expect to see them still coming our for sale for another couple of years.  From there they will still have software and hardware support as per the policy.  So you are looking at 7 to 9 years in total.  And although you won't see anymore hardware versions you will certainly see lots of software releases and feature enhancements in the future.

With that said, there will be no 3rd generation ERS switches.  ERS3600,4900, 5900 will be the last ones. 

I am telling my customers that continuing to buy ERSs is not a bad choice.  But you are correct. More R&D is going into EXOS.  And it does pain me to say this, but EXOS switches do have way more features.  And once you get use to the CLI, You can say easier to configure.   

I have three customers that have already started to swap out their ERS5500 and ERS4500 edge for EXOS.  Like you they have a VSP core and DataCentre.  Once you see how Extreme Management Centre works with EXOS you will understand that these switches can do so much more versus the ERSs.    Policies, Layer 7 visibility, flow collection, security and platform flexibility.  And all EXOS switches that support v22.4 or higher can do Fabric Attach.  So it really have no impact on your business as that is the same best practice as the ERSs.

If you really are unsure,  get your local Extreme sales team to show you how XMC works with an EXOS edge switch.  I almost feel off my chair when I saw the power you have.
ACSS- Avaya Enterprise Routing Switch  #8

Offline novice

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Re: Edge Switches - Avaya or Extreme
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2018, 07:12:40 AM »
Hi

I am in the similar situation. We have mixture of 5520 and 5510. As a part of network refresh we engaged with Extreme Networks and they mentioned that more R&D will be carried out for EXOS. They initially suggested X670-G2-48X as core and X460-G2-48T as edge with MLAG running. Later the proposal for core device was changed to X690 which is newer than X670.
Having worked with Cisco, Foundary, Enterasys, Avaya, Lenovo. I found switching between the vendor always a bit of learning curve and feeling unsafe. If one has strong core networking protocol concepts, working with standard implementation after going through the documentation, new cli and testing is not an issue. But if one is running some standard protocols and some propitiatory then it is more complex.
I had to Expect script the config for Avaya switches initially. As Paul mentioned automation can take that complexity away. I have used their old unpleasant Java based NetSight in a different environment but that is now being rewritten as a web based application which looked nice (now known as XMC).

We haven't decided yet which vendor to go but unfortunately Extreme/reseller suggested that buy back discount will be ending soon. And if we don't get best deal then we will not be reluctant to buy switches from another Vendor.

Offline Paul L

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Re: Edge Switches - Avaya or Extreme
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2018, 10:57:53 AM »
it really depends who you talk to, as the local extreme sales team will have different insights to what I see in my customers.  Nothing wrong with going 100% EXOS.  Nothing wrong with staying VSPs and ERS.  Work with your local sales team and find the right solution.  its a partnership. 

at the end of the day you will make the right choice for your Org.  Just remember that VSPs/VOSS switches will continue to be developed beyond this generation of switches.  VSP/VOSS are the future for Core, Distribution and the backbone of the automated campus solution.    And ERSs will continue to sell for a few more years and will be supported for many years to follow.

And all the EXOS G2 switches are amazing edge stackable.   You should look at them. 

Almost all my customers there were 100% Avaya are going VSP core, EXOS edge.

   



« Last Edit: March 28, 2018, 10:59:31 AM by Paul L »
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Offline ableseaman

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Re: Edge Switches - Avaya or Extreme
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2018, 10:39:06 AM »
Thanks for the feedback.

Decided to opt for the tried and tested ERS4950 to cover two of our thirteen campus edge stacks. Due to end of year budgets we had to comitt to a solution with little time to research. We will have more time to look at the rest of the edge stacks this year where we can look at the Extreme switches in greater detail and hopefully make a more evaluated choice.

Cheers again.