• March 27, 2017, 02:14:09 PM
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register. Registration is free.
Did you miss your activation email?

Author Topic: avaya economic status ?  (Read 1436 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Sja

  • Rookie
  • **
  • Posts: 12
avaya economic status ?
« on: December 22, 2016, 08:12:27 AM »
Hi

Will you buy network elements from vendor that is maybe on the way to chapter 11...





Offline Michael McNamara

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3809
    • michaelfmcnamara
    • Michael McNamara
Re: avaya economic status ?
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2016, 11:06:57 AM »
It's certainly a question that everyone needs to be asking themselves. The answer though is really going to depend greatly. If you have a new greenfield opportunity then I would find it extremely unlikely that I would try and leverage an Avaya solution either voice or data. These solutions need to last 5 - 10 year life cycles, there's no way you'll ever come close to that without the vendors support and the future is very hazy with regard to Avaya right now. If you have an existing deployment then it might be easier for now to just keep doing business as usual keeping an eye on possible exit/migration strategies.
We've been helping network engineers, system administrators and technology professionals since June 2009.
If you've found this site useful or helpful, please help me spread the word. Link to us in your blog or homepage - Thanks!

Offline Sja

  • Rookie
  • **
  • Posts: 12
Re: avaya economic status ?
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2016, 10:20:31 AM »
It's certainly a question that everyone needs to be asking themselves. The answer though is really going to depend greatly. If you have a new greenfield opportunity then I would find it extremely unlikely that I would try and leverage an Avaya solution either voice or data. These solutions need to last 5 - 10 year life cycles, there's no way you'll ever come close to that without the vendors support and the future is very hazy with regard to Avaya right now. If you have an existing deployment then it might be easier for now to just keep doing business as usual keeping an eye on possible exit/migration strategies.
Wise words

Offline Charles

  • Rookie
  • **
  • Posts: 15
Re: avaya economic status ?
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2016, 12:33:04 PM »
Their current financial status has me concerned as well, I'm looking to do a large scale replacement here in the very near future of both my wired and wireless.  Currently I'm running the 5600 series switches and the 8100 series wireless, I'm definitely considering the possibility of looking at two other vendors that are on state contracts I am restricted to.  I stuck with them when Nortel fell and thankful that everything worked out, however after the 5600 EOL and the 8100 EOL not long after they were introduced I'm not a happy camper.

Offline TankII

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 496
Re: avaya economic status ?
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2017, 06:29:07 PM »
We are currently doing a Cisco vs Avaya review since we are mostly 5500's and 5600's.  We would have had a significantly higher 4800 presence if the routing table had been bigger from the start, and would have been replacing L-3 5520's with 4850's many years ago.

My expectation is the Avaya technology will live on either as a separate entity or as part of another company's portfolio.
Others in the local area have no plans to stop buying Avaya Voice products, and others are still actively purchasing Avaya Data products, so I do not think the hardware is not going away in the near (1-5 year) future.

My take on it is if the sale of Contact Center goes through as reported by WSJ, the debt will be reduced and the management associated with said debt will follow the 'Crown Jewels' out of the HW side of the house.  That should make life easier for the HW focused (Bay/Nortel/Radvision) remnants, who have always been thinking long-term.

What hurts is how badly Broadcom is treating Brocade - it makes investors believe Networking has no value.

BTW, my spreadsheet for comparing the two vendors goes into excruciating detail, down to cost per port when fully provisioned, BTU/power requirements, packet rates, fabric/VSS/L-3/Netflow, etc.  I could not just say "3850 = 5952" and have a clear conscience.

TankII

Offline Sja

  • Rookie
  • **
  • Posts: 12
Re: avaya economic status ?
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2017, 01:24:10 PM »
We are currently doing a Cisco vs Avaya review since we are mostly 5500's and 5600's.  We would have had a significantly higher 4800 presence if the routing table had been bigger from the start, and would have been replacing L-3 5520's with 4850's many years ago.

My expectation is the Avaya technology will live on either as a separate entity or as part of another company's portfolio.
Others in the local area have no plans to stop buying Avaya Voice products, and others are still actively purchasing Avaya Data products, so I do not think the hardware is not going away in the near (1-5 year) future.

Funny stuff somehow I was sure that Avaya network people will prefer Juniper:-)
I think that many Avaya partners are Juniper partners ..
My take on it is if the sale of Contact Center goes through as reported by WSJ, the debt will be reduced and the management associated with said debt will follow the 'Crown Jewels' out of the HW side of the house.  That should make life easier for the HW focused (Bay/Nortel/Radvision) remnants, who have always been thinking long-term.

What hurts is how badly Broadcom is treating Brocade - it makes investors believe Networking has no value.

BTW, my spreadsheet for comparing the two vendors goes into excruciating detail, down to cost per port when fully provisioned, BTU/power requirements, packet rates, fabric/VSS/L-3/Netflow, etc.  I could not just say "3850 = 5952" and have a clear conscience.

TankII



Funny stuff somehow I was sure that most Avaya network people would prefer Juniper to Cisco:-)
I think there are many More Avaya & Juniper sale partners then any Cisco & any other vendor...
We move from Nortel to Juniper probably because there was good relationship with the partners..
Juniper gear and OS are good

Offline TankII

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 496
Re: avaya economic status ?
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2017, 09:46:49 AM »
While I happen to like Juniper products and some of their features, I prefer Brocade over them.
Upper management (Layer 8) came from all Cisco shops, so I have to justify Avaya Data purchases each and every time - not fun.
Brocade is in our Data Center, but I was told not to consider them for our refresh, despite having a great reputation here and being manufactured in the USA.

Here in the US northeast Cisco, dominates most Enterprise facilities. That being said, some companies where people are testing Juniper are finding neither Juniper nor Cisco handle new multicast camera deployments well and are starting to test (and like) Avaya.  Others are finding throughput/latency performance issues with both and have switched to Arista.

TankII

Offline Sja

  • Rookie
  • **
  • Posts: 12
Re: avaya economic status ?
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2017, 11:49:50 AM »
While I happen

Here in the US northeast Cisco, dominates most Enterprise facilities. That being said, some companies where people are testing Juniper are finding neither Juniper nor Cisco handle new multicast camera deployments well and are starting to test (and like) Avaya.  Others are finding throughput/latency performance issues with both and have switched to Arista.

TankII
probably every vendor can get you better multicast performance..
You probably will need to use some proprietary protocol or technique that works well but only with that vendor... :(
We use Juniper multicast VPN that works great with juniper MX
Cisco probably have something similar..
Avaya SPBM is not but there are other risks  with Avaya

Offline Michael McNamara

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3809
    • michaelfmcnamara
    • Michael McNamara
Re: avaya economic status ?
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2017, 03:27:45 PM »
I've seen a lot of folks moving to HPE (Aruba), especially smaller healthcare institutions.
We've been helping network engineers, system administrators and technology professionals since June 2009.
If you've found this site useful or helpful, please help me spread the word. Link to us in your blog or homepage - Thanks!

Offline Sja

  • Rookie
  • **
  • Posts: 12
Re: avaya economic status ?
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2017, 07:47:57 AM »
I've seen a lot of folks moving to HPE (Aruba), especially smaller healthcare institutions.
I don't think that "HPE is safer bet" than Avaya when we're talking economics...
:-)
Technically I will personally prefer Avaya SPBM in the core and get the best port price for access
Wifi I think Aruba has advantages but it's not big...
Avaya SPBM switch portfolio should be better If they like to win more...
ERS8800/8600 is EoL
9k is also a Nortel legacy and it's probably on the way to EoL if 100GE modules are not the way...
That means that they don't have chassis switch...
+
The new 8000/8400 and 7200 are the same switch just port number is the difference...
4000 access levels and can not be used as BCB.

HPE portfolio got a push from Aruba (just what Avaya is missing)
But the OS is not focus and can support SPBM in some switches and Trill and other proprietary technology in other.....

Offline TankII

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 496
Re: avaya economic status ?
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2017, 05:05:45 PM »
I've been investigating Cisco's "Campus Fabric" - the 2015 edition - and it will only work with two different Core switches.  Those are the 6800 and Nexus 7000.  Since the 3850 cannot do VSS (unlike it's predecessor the 3750), it cannot be used as an alternative Core.  Neither can the NBAR + VSS capable 4500 chassis due to lack of Campus Fabric support.

Edge switches for this solution are limited to the 3650 and 3850.

Compare that to Avaya, and you see significant product flexibility and reduced rack footprint.

No vendor is perfect, but some do a better job than others.

Offline ijdod

  • Rookie
  • **
  • Posts: 20
Re: avaya economic status ?
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2017, 04:15:22 AM »
Chapter 11 is now official. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-avaya-bankruptcy-idUSKBN1532JY

Juniper lost a lot of cred with us when they dropped their Trapeze wireless (just after we deployed 2500 of them...). We'd love to go SPB, but have serious worries about Avaya (even before this bit of news), vs the huge market share, available know-how both in the market and online for that other vendor. The latter is a very tough act to beat for SPB, wonderful as it is.

(We have 4 ACE-Fx certified network engineers, and no SPB :( due to layer 8 concerns)

« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 04:18:15 AM by ijdod »

Offline TankII

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 496
Re: avaya economic status ?
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2017, 06:42:17 AM »
The way to talk to your layer8 people is to focus on the finances then show the issue was the debt payments.

www.avaya.com   /en/about-avaya/newsroom/news-releases/2017/pr-us-170119b/

3.7B revenue
over 60% gross margin
Networking revenue up 31% year over year

Nothing overtly wrong with the company, only the inability to paydown the 2007 leveraged buyout debt quickly enough.

I believe they are still #3 in the industry (Telecom/Networking combined) behind Cisco and Siemens, and #1 in Telephony sales.  #5 in Networking, but with continued consolidation in that area, and their abrupt gains, I believe they will be behind Juniper soon.

TankII

Offline ijdod

  • Rookie
  • **
  • Posts: 20
Re: avaya economic status ?
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2017, 07:23:21 AM »
Oh, that layer8 bit is about implementing it now on our current core/distri infra (ERS8k mainly). As in just turning it on. No investment required other than time.

The future is wide-open. To be fair, I'm on the fence on that one myself; I love SPB, but Avaya not so much. My

Offline Sja

  • Rookie
  • **
  • Posts: 12
Re: avaya economic status ?
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2017, 09:30:20 AM »
Oh, that layer8 bit is about implementing it now on our current core/distri infra (ERS8k mainly). As in just turning it on. No investment required other than time.

The future is wide-open. To be fair, I'm on the fence on that one myself; I love SPB, but Avaya not so much. My

Nortel/Avaya are the most honest vendor out there ...The way they took SPBM and didn't give up make me appreciate them even more ...
I think it's like that Sinatra song "My way"...  only in the movies The good guys wins...