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Author Topic: 4850GTS-PWR+ Poe and LIGHTNING storms  (Read 6026 times)

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Offline bhusebye

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4850GTS-PWR+ Poe and LIGHTNING storms
« on: July 02, 2015, 11:45:03 AM »
Trying to be non biased but lightning is causing issues at a site.  4850GTS-PWR+ are blowing their POE portion during storms.  I am believing that regardless if there is a command to re-enable POE the issue will continue until something is done about grounding.  I figure it works like this say you have a POE camera on port 1 and a POE phone on port 46 in order to keep from having lightning blowing through the guys ear on the POE phone when lightning strikes the non grounded camera there is some protection enabled.  Has anyone had experience with 4850's losing POE?
« Last Edit: July 02, 2015, 12:40:16 PM by bhusebye »


Offline Telair

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Re: 4850GTS-PWR+ Poe and LIGHTNING storms
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2015, 01:41:32 PM »
Lightning...  Well no switch in existence is going to survive a lightning strike on an attached device if the current follows the copper cable back.  Can you use fiber instead?  I had enough problems with just large static shocks in my building until I followed the cables and found the switches were grounded to the racks, but the racks didn't ground to anything.  If you have Ethernet devices connected outdoors you should be ground it out before it connects back to any equipment just in case of lightning strikes.  I have seen what happens at remote field sites that didn't install the grounding boxes I sent out to them for their external radio antennas before plugging them in to their equipment.  And this happened at a natural gas plant.  I didn't know you could literally explode a router to the point it's interface card was imbedded in the wall on the other side of the room, smoking.  At the point of entrance in to the building the copper Ethernet cables connect in to a grounding/surge protection box which is connected to a good ground.  Depending on what you want they can range from $20 to a couple hundred dollars each.  I'll put a link to the kind of things to look at.

This is pretty close to what I would use for external Ethernet runs once they get inside.
http://www.l-com.com/surge-protector-outdoor-10-100-1000-base-t-cat6-hi-power-lightning-protector-rj45-jacks

Here are some other pages of similar devices.
http://www.l-com.com/content/Data_Line_Protector_Comparison.html
http://www.blackbox.com/Store/Detail.aspx/Outdoor-Ethernet-PoE-Lightning-Protector/AL-CAT6JTW
https://www.ubnt.com/accessories/ethernet-surge-protector/
« Last Edit: July 02, 2015, 01:43:30 PM by Telair »

Offline bhusebye

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Re: 4850GTS-PWR+ Poe and LIGHTNING storms
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2015, 09:42:36 AM »
I can say, I have already suggested all the above, arresters, surge protectors and that they have grounding issues that could be alleviated using fiber and transceivers at either end.  Cost goes up though because power will have to be run and injectors planned for.  The country the "opportunity" is in makes it hard to get things done properly.

Offline bhusebye

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Re: 4850GTS-PWR+ Poe and LIGHTNING storms
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2015, 10:05:04 AM »
These messages showed up in the log.  I was hoping for some sort of reset command as a far fetched miracle, I used to live in Florida and understand the power of lightning all too well.  I have been watching a Tube based television more that once during a storm and all of a sudden I was watching a dot (I need to turn my vcr on so I can record the dot to watch later on).  They have already been told to try to renable poe on the downed port.   I may have the bad switch shipped to me for testing.

1 Enable Overload 1 32 Low
2 Enable Overload Error 32 Low
3 Enable Overload Error 32 Low

Offline Telair

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Re: 4850GTS-PWR+ Poe and LIGHTNING storms
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2015, 03:34:14 PM »
You can always disable and re-enable PoE on a per-port basis to see if it helps.  But I can't think of a "master" PoE reset command.  I am thinking that switch is damaged at this point and time to use the RMA process.

As soon as a cable comes indoors from outside we have to run it through a lightning protector by the local electrical code I believe.  Otherwise you can always put in sacrificial cheap Netgear PoE switches that the cameras connect to, but then put a lighting protector/surge network trap between the cheap gear and the expensive stuff or go with a short length of fiber.  Just put the sacrificial switch on it's own surge bar, preferably on a different circuit altogether.  When it explodes it's just a matter of going to get another cheap switch at the office supply store or stocking a couple spares for a fraction of the price of the big corporate switches.  We had a chemical plant that would literally burn switches out due to the caustic environment.  We ended up sealing the main router and good corporate switches in the lunch room where there was no contamination and putting cheap units in the building to burn out.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2015, 07:28:20 PM by Telair »

Offline Kenzler

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Re: 4850GTS-PWR+ Poe and LIGHTNING storms
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2015, 05:02:21 AM »
Morning all.
We have not had problems with 4850GTS-PWR+ with bad weather but we had about 8 fail with POE.
Avaya support team came back.

Snippets from the conversation

Quote
As per the logs attached to the SR , it appears this operation failed and PoE status went to 'unreadable' state so the output showing "PoE Module FW: 15.15.15.", and other <poe...> commands failing or resulting in ERS hang state.

Quote
This could prove that units manufactured in 2014 and 2013 are fine,while some of 2011 can be affected (see sys-info *********)
Serial Number:1JP520H704H, Manufacturing Date: 20111224
Serial Number:14JP093H70M5, Manufacturing Date: 20140225

Quote
The only solution was to replace the faulty switches.
Failure analysis performed on faulty ERS, pointed the root cause as a faulty schottky diode which lead to blown out the PoE+ controller chip.

Hope this helps.

Offline Dominik

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Re: 4850GTS-PWR+ Poe and LIGHTNING storms
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2015, 05:07:27 AM »
@Kenzler

thanks for sharing that information. Did you replace all the 2011 manufactured devices ?

Cheers
Its always the networks fault!
networkautobahn.com

Offline Kenzler

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Re: 4850GTS-PWR+ Poe and LIGHTNING storms
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2015, 05:16:37 AM »
We have over 500 Avaya devices on our network so this is ongoing.  Ill leave that to the management team..

 :D

Offline pat2012

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Re: 4850GTS-PWR+ Poe and LIGHTNING storms
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2015, 03:52:30 PM »
We've had many ES 460's with failed PoE. So far I believe we had about 2 ERS 4500's fail PoE.

Does anyone know if Avaya/Nortel has a higher PoE failure rate compared to other vendors?  Are they just plagued with "fragile" PoE modules?

To be fair, I think some of the failures may have been due to power issues - not lightening though.  ;D

Offline Telair

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Re: 4850GTS-PWR+ Poe and LIGHTNING storms
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2015, 06:03:59 PM »
We run a large number of ERS 5520 switches for user connectivity.  Never had one PoE module give out yet, though had lots of fans fail after running for almost a decade.

Offline TankII

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Re: 4850GTS-PWR+ Poe and LIGHTNING storms
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2015, 09:59:32 AM »
Run the units on an on-line double-conversion UPS (We use MinuteMan Endeavor series here) and the problems will likely go away.
We had problems with Line interactive units in a building with bad power until we switched to double-conversion units.
And yes, they can be found for inexpensive $$.  Liebert GTX, Minuteman, even Cyberpower (OL series) will work quite well in some pretty lousy conditions.

The higher the power factor, the more expensive the unit, but the greater the efficiency if operating costs are a concern.

TankII